Saturday, October 25, 2008

I Could Use Some Help

I have been busy lately, when not working, sleeping, blogging or out taking pictures, putting together my 2009 calendar. Every year since 2000 I have put together a calendar that I give as a Christmas gift to family and some friends. All of the photos in the calendar are pictures that Michelle or I took during the previous year. The first couple I had done at a drug store chain and the quality was very disappointing. So for the six years that followed, 2002 through 2007, I printed them and put them together myself. I was very expensive and time consuming for to put them together so we did not do very many, despite requests from people to buy them. Last year I got smart and went through an Internet calendar publisher. They came out very nice, good quality, and the only time that I had to put into it was putting it together initially. Another bonus of having them printed was that other people who wanted a calendar were able to order them also, we put the orders all together to get a quantity discount which made it cheaper for us too. I am almost done with the 2009 calendar, which I am going through the Internet printing company again, but I have hit a small problem. I am contemplating using the following picture, that I recently took at Park Point in Duluth, in the calendar but I am not sure on my ID of the bird.
My guess is that it is an orange-crowned warbler but I have a problem distinguishing between orange-crowned and Nashville warblers when they are not in breeding plumage.

Here is another view. My reasoning is that it has a white throat and a broken eye ring which are characteristics of orange-crowned compared to the yellow throat and complete eye ring of the Nashville. However I need to be 100% certain before I can go to print and my time is running short. So please tell me what you think in the comment section. Please be honest if you think that I am wrong. Thanks.


Unknown said...

I think that this warbler is too yellow for Orange-crowned and the breast and body don't have the streaking that is prevalent in Orange-crowned. I am not as familiar with Nashville warbler. I do handle lots of Orange-crowned warblers in fall migration here in Colorado for banding.

Shelley said...

I wish I knew - but it will be a wonderful addition for your calendar!!!

Leedra said...

I don't know the bird is, but beautiful. See why you want to add it to your calendar.

Anonymous said...

For what it's worth - I took some pics of both species at Carpenter over the last few years. It seems that the orange crowned always has a split eye-ring and the Nashville has a complete eye-ring. Your pic is hard to id because the colors seem too yellow. I suspect this was a late afternon pic in full sunshine.
Larry S

Chris W said...

For what it's worth:
I don't think either Nashville or Orange-crowned fits this bird. Although, it does have some characteristics of both. First of all, there's too much contrast on this bird for it to be an Orange-crowned Warbler. OCWAs are usually dull, drab, olive green little birds. This one is rather strikingly colored.
The broken and un-prominent eye ring suggest Orange-crowned. It's certainly not a Redstart. Even the overall shape is all wrong.

My guess is that this is most likely a young NASHVILLE WARBLER. However, it could be a Nashville with a little bit of Orange-crowned in him.
That would make it an Orange-ville Warbler right? ;)

Anonymous said...

When you see the side view Parus, you will understand why in fact it is an American Redstart. A Nashville does not have white undertail coverts - which this bird does.

Here is a link to one of the images Jeff sent me. Look at it and tell me "It's certainly not a Redstart. Even the overall shape is all wrong."

American Redstart it is!

Anonymous said...

The third pic makes it 100% redstart obviously. The original two were interesting in how deceptive they were. It almost looked like a young parula.

Chris W said...

If this picture is of the same bird, then the bird is indeed a Redstart. However, just looking at the photos that Jeff posted to his blog, the angle of the photo makes the overall shape seem wrong for Redstart.

You don't have to be all pompous about it. You look at the photos on his blog and tell me exactly how you get Am Redstart out of those and then I might believe you. Plus, if Jeff truly was looking for help on his ID and truly did take that pic, why did he not post it?? It would have made ID much easier. If he was giving us a photo quiz, why did he go through all the trouble to try and mislead us by making us think it could be an Orange-crown or Nashville?

Also, you say: "A Nashville does not have white undertail coverts - which this bird does.".
They are clearly NOT visible in the photos that are posted in this post. You can only see that in the photo that you have. Therefore, you have a better angle and more info than I do.
I think you should think first before trying to quote people.

Anonymous said...

Getting pompous? You were the one who id'd the bird positively as not a redstart based on two images that did not show all the field marks to make the id.

"The it's certainly not a Redstart" comment reeks of I know it all.

Identifying a fall warbler based on images that don't show the undertail coverts and tail are a crap shoot.

Based on his two images I would have not made the id.

Thank you. :-)

Ecobirder said...

This was my fault and I am sorry for any confusion. When I orignally made the post I only had the two pictures that I posted. I went back today to look at my originals and that is when I found the other ones. Terry had an advantage because he got to see the other two before I was able to get them posted. Everyone's opinion is respected here and it is Ok to be wrong, look at my first guess, especially when I did not get all of the pictures up in the first place.

Anonymous said...

An American Redstart it is, but could also be a young male. It takes them time to get the 'red', and they look like the females at first, as is typical of many species of birds.
Liis from Winnipeg